BEFORE THE IMPARTIAL ARBITRATOR
ALEXANDER COHN
IN THE MATTER OF THE ARBITRATION BETWEEN: )
STATE OF CALIFORNIA )
AND ) VOLUME III
CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION OF ADMINISTRATIVE )
LAW JUDGES, ATTORNEYS AND HEARING OFFICERS )
IN STATE EMPLOYMENT )
)
____________________________________________)
2450 VENTURE OAKS WAY
SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA
OCTOBER 12, 2005
REPORTED BY: ANGELA M. HELMS, CSR
CERTIFICATE NO. 9561
1
1 A P P E A R A N C E S:
2
3 FOR THE STATE:
4 BARRETT MC INERNEY, Attorney at Law
5 1515 S Street, North Building, Suite 400
6 Sacramento, California 95814
7
8 FOR THE ASSOCIATION:
9 MONICA MINER, Labor Relations Representative
10 2495 Natomas Park Drive, Suite 550
11 Sacramento, California 95833
12
13 ALSO PRESENT:
14 ROBERT DANERI
15 JEAN ROWAN
16 A. RENEE KOREN
17 KATHERINE ECONOMOU
18
19 BEFORE:
20 ALEXANDER COHN, Arbitrator
21 Post Office Box 4006
22 Napa, California 94558
23
24
25
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
2
1 I N D E X
2
3 W I T N E S S E S: PAGE
4
5 FOR THE UNION
6 ROBERT DANERI
7 Direct Examination 6
8 Cross Examination 35
9 Redirect Examination 38
10
11 A. RENEE KOREN
12 Direct Examination 44
13 Cross Examination 64
14 Redirect Examination 67
15
16 FOR THE STATE
17 ROBERT DANERI
18 Direct Examination 70
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
3
1 E X H I B I T S: PAGE
2
3 MARKED RECEIVED
4
5 UNION EXHIBITS:
6 Union Exhibit 17
Copy of California Civil
7 Code Sections 1798.80 through
1798.84 32
8
9 STATE EXHIBITS:
10 State Exhibit 1
Settlement Agreement Between
11 SCIF and CASE with Attached
Signature Page 70 72
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
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1 SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA; WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 12, 2005
2 9:54 A.M.
3 -O0O-
4
5 ROBERT DANERI,
6 HAVING FIRST BEEN DULY SWORN, WAS
7 EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
8
9 THE ARBITRATOR: Let's go back on the record
10 and show this is day three of the CASE grievance with
11 SCIF, in general, concerning the availability of cell
12 phones.
13 The next witness for the Union has been
14 called and sworn. And for the record, sir, would you
15 please give us your full name, spelling your last
16 name.
17 THE WITNESS: It's Robert Daneri,
18 D-a-n-e-r-i.
19 THE ARBITRATOR: And your position, if any,
20 with SCIF?
21 THE WITNESS: Chief Counsel at State
22 Compensation Insurance Fund.
23 THE ARBITRATOR: Your witness.
24 MS. MINER: Thank you.
25
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
5
1 DIRECT EXAMINATION
2
3 BY MS. MINER:
4 Q Mr. Daneri, could you please tell me who
5 you report to.
6 A James Neary, the executive
7 vice-president.
8 Q How do you spell that?
9 A N-e-a-r-y.
10 Q Executive vice-president, you said?
11 A Uh-huh.
12 Q Okay. How long have you been in the
13 classification of Chief Counsel?
14 A Since May 1, 2004. It's been a year and
15 a half, I would say, now.
16 Q How long have you worked for the State?
17 A Since May 15th, 1978,
18 27-and-almost-a-half years.
19 Q And what other positions have you held
20 with the State?
21 A I was a staff attorney when I started
22 with State Compensation Insurance Fund in 1978; then I
23 was an attorney-in-charge supervisor in 1986; and in
24 August of 1987, I became an assistant chief counsel,
25 and I was an assistant chief counsel with State Fund
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
6
1 from August of 1987 through April of 2004.
2 Q Have you worked for any other
3 departments --
4 A No.
5 Q -- in the State?
6 Who did you work for prior to coming to
7 the State?
8 A I was in private practice in a law firm
9 in Palo Alto, general law.
10 Q Do you recall what years you worked for
11 that law firm?
12 A Yes. It would have been 1974 until
13 coming to work at State Fund in 1978.
14 Q So did you ever practice Workers' Comp
15 prior to coming to State Fund?
16 A No, I did not.
17 Q In your capacity as Chief Counsel, could
18 you describe who you supervise.
19 A I supervise six assistant chief counsels
20 who, in turn, supervise our attorney supervisors. I
21 can't tell you exactly how many we have. It's
22 probably about 30.
23 Q I'm going to start asking you questions
24 regarding the Fresno cell phone grievance.
25 Were you aware that pay phones had been
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
7
1 taken out of the Workers' Compensation Appeals Board
2 in Fresno about two years ago?
3 MR. MC INERNEY: Objection; vague as to time.
4 Are we saying --
5 THE ARBITRATOR: She said about two years
6 ago.
7 MR. MC INERNEY: -- about two years ago or
8 when he became aware?
9 BY MS. MINER:
10 Q Are you aware that there is no pay phones
11 in the Fresno Workers' --
12 A I'm aware of that.
13 Q Do you recall when you became aware of
14 the situation?
15 A Probably late 2003.
16 Q Do you recall if SCIF was notified of
17 this change, that this -- at the Fresno Workers'
18 Compensation Appeals Board?
19 A No.
20 Q Okay.
21 A I don't recall.
22 Q So at the time that the Fresno pay phones
23 were taken out, you were an assistant chief counsel;
24 correct?
25 A That's correct.
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
8
1 Q Okay. In your capacity as Assistant
2 Chief Counsel, were you aware of any situations, at
3 the boards that your attorneys supervised, of pay
4 phones being taken out?
5 A No.
6 Q Do you know if the ACCs and yourself have
7 discussed the issue of the pay phones at the WCABs at
8 the annual conferences in the last few years?
9 A It could have been discussed in 2003. I
10 don't have a direct recollection. It could have been
11 discussed in 2004, but again, I don't have a direct
12 recollection of that. It wasn't discussed in 2005, or
13 not with me anyhow.
14 Q Were you aware of the cell phone pilot
15 project out of Fresno?
16 A I'm aware of it now.
17 Q Okay. And how did you become aware of
18 it?
19 A I think in late 2003, there was some word
20 that there was some Jerry-Rigging of cell phones in
21 Fresno. I don't think I really had much of the
22 specifics though. Fresno was not my office.
23 Q Do you know how the project came to be
24 terminated?
25 A My recollection, it was terminated in
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
9
1 early 2004.
2 Q Could you tell me if there's an agreement
3 between the legal office and the executive office at
4 SCIF about cell phones for the attorneys?
5 A I don't think there's any formal
6 agreement.
7 Q Is there an informal agreement?
8 A I don't think so.
9 Q After you became Chief Counsel, had you
10 ever spoken with Mr. Jordan at the Fresno office about
11 the cell phone pilot project?
12 A You know, I just can't recall. I might
13 have.
14 MS. MINER: I'd like to show the witness
15 Joint Exhibit 2.
16 THE ARBITRATOR: Showing it to the witness.
17 Any objection to me sharing with the
18 witness?
19 MR. MC INERNEY: No.
20 BY MS. MINER:
21 Q If you'll take a few moments to please
22 look at that.
23 A (Witness complies.)
24 This is the August 23rd letter? Oh, it's
25 got attachments to it.
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
10
1 THE ARBITRATOR: Let's go off the record.
2 (Pause in proceedings.)
3 BY MS. MINER:
4 Q Have you seen this grievance before
5 today?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. And have you reviewed it in
8 preparation for your testimony today?
9 A I have looked it over.
10 Q Okay.
11 A Well, actually, there's several
12 grievances. So ...
13 Q We'll get to the second one --
14 A Okay.
15 Q -- in a few minutes.
16 Do you know if -- to the best of your
17 recollection, if SCIF notified CASE of the decision to
18 take away the cell phones out of the Fresno office?
19 A I don't know either way.
20 Q Okay. Do you have a cell phone that SCIF
21 pays for?
22 A Yes, I do.
23 Q Do you have any other electronic
24 equipment that State Fund provides to you?
25 A Yes, I have a Blackberry and a lap-top
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
11
1 computer.
2 Q How often do you use those devices?
3 A I use the cell phone very seldom, usually
4 when I'm traveling down south or something like that.
5 I use the Blackberry daily. And the lap-top computer
6 is hooked into my desktop monitor, and I use that
7 every day at work.
8 Q And SCIF pays for those; correct?
9 A Yes.
10 MS. MINER: I would like to show the witness
11 Union 1, the cell phone reimbursement rates procedure.
12 THE ARBITRATOR: Showing it to the witness,
13 Union 1.
14 BY MS. MINER:
15 Q Why don't you take a few moments to look
16 at that. It's several pages.
17 A (Witness complies.)
18 THE ARBITRATOR: Let's go off the record.
19 (Pause in proceedings.)
20 BY MS. MINER:
21 Q Could you describe the procedure by which
22 attorneys submit reimbursement policy -- or request
23 for reimbursement subject to this procedure.
24 A They would send a 594 to their
25 attorney-in-charge and request a sign off, and then
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
12
1 that would be sent to the Business Services
2 Department.
3 Q Have you ever had to use this policy
4 before?
5 A I've never used it.
6 Q Do you understand the formula that SCIF
7 uses to reimburse?
8 A I've actually never seen this before
9 today.
10 Q Okay.
11 A And I could not explain the formula to
12 you at this point in time.
13 Q Do you know if any of the rank-and-file
14 attorneys are having any issues with seeking
15 reimbursement under this policy?
16 A I've never had anyone complain directly
17 to me.
18 Q To the best of your knowledge, has SCIF
19 investigated purchasing cell phones for their
20 attorneys to use while they're out of the office?
21 A Well, I, myself, did a quick take on
22 what -- what it would cost to get cell phones for
23 everyone.
24 Q And when was that?
25 A Recently, within the last month, over the
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
13
1 last few weeks.
2 Q And was that with a specific company?
3 A Well, that was with our Business Services
4 Department. I don't deal directly with any company.
5 Q Okay. Could you describe that
6 circumstance.
7 A I was interested to see what it would
8 cost, and I went to Business Services to get an idea
9 of what the cost would be, yes.
10 Q And what did they say?
11 A What we have is, we could get a -- we
12 could get a cell phone that would be a base price of
13 $60, and that would just be for the monthly cost,
14 which would probably have enough minutes or close to
15 enough minutes, a considerable amount of minutes; and
16 then attached to that would be about $10 in tax, which
17 for the -- the 500 -- roughly 540 attorneys we have
18 both in the Insured Legal Department and in the State
19 Contract Department, would be roughly $38,000 a month,
20 which comes out to a little over $450,000 a year; but
21 that doesn't include going over minutes, which would
22 be .35 a minute, and that doesn't include the unit
23 itself, and that doesn't include the staff time to
24 monitor the billings and to get the billings paid.
25 Q Was that research that you did in
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
14
1 anticipation of today's testimony?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay. Did Business --
4 A Also out of my own curiosity, I wanted to
5 see.
6 Q Did --
7 A I thought it would cost a lot, and it
8 does.
9 Q Did Business Services give you any
10 specifics about the companies that they researched to
11 provide an answer to you?
12 A No. But they have a good familiarity
13 from providing cell phones to our auditors and our
14 field people; so they're well-familiar with cell phone
15 companies.
16 Q Did you ask them to do an analysis of the
17 difference between people seeking reimbursement under
18 the SCIF reimbursement procedure versus actually
19 purchasing cell phones --
20 A No.
21 Q -- for the attorneys?
22 Was it your determination that that cost
23 was too expensive?
24 A The cost is prohibitively expensive.
25 Q And when was this request made,
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
15
1 approximately, to Business Services?
2 A It was sometime in September. I think it
3 might have been initiated at late August, and I think
4 I got the information mid-September sometime.
5 Q And why would you say it's
6 cost-prohibitive?
7 A Well, $450,000 a year, at a minimum, is
8 an awful -- is a tremendous amount of money in our
9 budget at a time when, for 2006, I am desperately
10 trying to hold on to all the attorney positions that
11 we had for 2005. And I don't have $450,000 to pay
12 for -- for cell phones for attorneys. It's just --
13 it's a huge budgetary item.
14 Q If you had made a determination to ask
15 for cell phones, who would that request have been made
16 to?
17 A The request would have gone to James
18 Neary, my executive vice-president.
19 Q Okay. In Joint Exhibit 2, Mr. Landsiedel
20 talked about people purchasing cell phones for SCIF
21 business.
22 To the best of your knowledge, do you
23 know if any rank-and-file attorneys have done that?
24 MR. MC INERNEY: Could you reference what
25 we're talking about in Exhibit 2, since it's 15 pages?
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
16
1 MS. MINER: Sure.
2 THE ARBITRATOR: Joint 2?
3 MS. MINER: Yes, Joint 2. It would have been
4 one of the e-mails attached to the original grievance.
5 THE WITNESS: I recall seeing the e-mail.
6 Oh, yeah. Here it is. Okay.
7 BY MS. MINER:
8 Q To the best of your knowledge, do you
9 know if any attorneys have purchased a cell phone for
10 SCIF business?
11 A I don't have any firsthand knowledge, but
12 I can make an assumption that that has happened, but
13 it's just an assumption. I could be wrong.
14 Q Mr. Daneri, could you please tell me when
15 was the last time you made an appearance at a WCAB.
16 A Probably 1987.
17 Q And when you were practicing before the
18 WCAB, what boards did you normally appear at?
19 A San Francisco, and I used to handle a
20 variety of cases which would take me to other boards,
21 Oakland, Sacramento, Santa Rosa, occasionally in
22 Southern California, San Jose.
23 Q Let me back up for just a moment.
24 When you were Assistant Chief Counsel,
25 what was the area that you supervised?
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
17
1 A I supervised the San Diego Legal
2 Department, the San Francisco Legal Department, the
3 Special Litigation Unit and Home Office, Corporate,
4 Appellate.
5 Actually, those duties had changed over
6 the 16 years that I was Assistant Chief Counsel, but
7 that's what I had at the end.
8 Q Okay. As of today, could you describe
9 what SCIF's practice is for their attorneys to get
10 ahold of clients, lien claimants or anyone else, while
11 they're making an appearance at the WCAB.
12 A Well, since I haven't been there since
13 1987, I'm not exactly sure what steps they're taking
14 or what they are doing.
15 I mean, some -- some attorneys will go to
16 the WCAB with their authority in hand; some will need
17 to make a phone call to an adjuster to get authority
18 or get increased authority.
19 Precisely how that's getting done, I
20 can't tell you. It is getting done though.
21 Q Do you know, as of today, how private
22 defense attorneys get ahold of their clients --
23 A No.
24 Q -- when they're at the WCAB?
25 When you were making appearances at the
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
18
1 WCAB, did you ever have to go to another building to
2 make a phone call?
3 A Yes.
4 Q How often would you say you had to do
5 that?
6 A Not often.
7 Q Okay. Did most of the buildings have pay
8 phones at the time?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Do you recall how far you had to go to
11 get to another building?
12 A It might have been across the street at
13 some various board I wasn't familiar with; or when the
14 phones that they had at the boards were all taken up,
15 that's when it would usually happen. You'd get a
16 situation where you'd have four phones, and you'd have
17 forty attorneys clamoring for the phones, and so you'd
18 have to go across the street or you'd have to go down
19 the street; but usually, I could find a phone.
20 And then often, if an attorney a fully
21 prepared on a Workers' Comp case, they often don't
22 have to make that phone call.
23 Q Do you know how far the attorneys in the
24 Fresno office have to go to get to a pay phone?
25 A No.
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
19
1 Q Are you aware that the pay phones at the
2 Grover Beach Workers' Comp Appeals Board have been
3 taken out recently?
4 A I just found that out.
5 Q Do you know how far it is for them to
6 find a pay phone?
7 A No.
8 THE ARBITRATOR: I need to ask for
9 clarification. I'm the only one that doesn't know.
10 Grover Beach, is that in Fresno or
11 somewhere else?
12 MS. MINER: Grover Beach is somewhere else.
13 MR. MC INERNEY: It's near Pismo Beach.
14 MS. MINER: It's right next to Pismo Beach.
15 THE ARBITRATOR: Please continue.
16 BY MS. MINER:
17 Q Are you aware of how many pay phones
18 there are at the Redding Board?
19 A No.
20 Q Do most of your rank-and-file attorneys
21 have phone cards that they can use?
22 A They all do.
23 Q They all do.
24 Do you know how well those cards work for
25 them?
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
20
1 A No.
2 Q Okay.
3 A I would assume that any card that didn't
4 work properly could be exchanged with Business
5 Services, and they could receive a card that did work
6 properly.
7 Q Are you aware or had any complaints of a
8 situation where people have tried to use the phone
9 cards at the pay phone and they don't work?
10 A No.
11 Q Okay. Are you aware if there's any pay
12 phones at the Chico Board?
13 A No.
14 Q At the Oxnard Board?
15 A I have no idea.
16 Q At the Goleta Board?
17 A No.
18 THE ARBITRATOR: How do you spell Goleta?
19 MS. MINER: Goleta, G-o-l-e-t-a.
20 THE ARBITRATOR: Thank you.
21 BY MS. MINER:
22 Q At the Santa Monica Board?
23 A I don't know.
24 Q Okay. Do you know about the San Jose
25 Board?
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
21
1 A No.
2 Q The Pomona Board?
3 A No.
4 Q The Bakersfield Board?
5 A No.
6 Q San Francisco?
7 A No.
8 Q Anaheim?
9 A No.
10 Q Sacramento?
11 A No.
12 Q Stockton?
13 A No.
14 Q Van Nuys?
15 A No.
16 Q Riverside?
17 A No.
18 Q Oakland?
19 A No.
20 Q San Bernardino?
21 A No.
22 What was the question again?
23 Q It was: Do you know if there's any pay
24 phones at these various boards?
25 A Okay.
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
22
1 Q And if you're not aware, then I can't ask
2 a follow-up question.
3 A Don't know.
4 Q Are you aware of how many -- how
5 available pay phones are at any other boards --
6 A No.
7 Q -- within the State?
8 Are the State contracts -- they don't
9 have pay phones -- cell phones either; correct?
10 A Not to my knowledge.
11 Q Are you aware that many of the State
12 clients show up to the Board with cell phones?
13 A No.
14 Q Okay. Could you tell me if the civil
15 section has cell phones?
16 A There's one attorney in the civil section
17 in Northern California that has a pay phone -- excuse
18 me -- that has a cell phone purchased by State Fund.
19 Q And what was the purpose of that
20 purchase?
21 A My understanding, is it's twofold: One,
22 there was a huge civil litigation case in which there
23 was 24-hour responsibility; and also as a reasonable
24 accommodation for a hearing problem.
25 Q Okay. Any of the subrogation attorneys
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
23
1 that have cell phones?
2 A Their own or by State Fund?
3 Q By State Fund.
4 A No.
5 Q And your longshoremen, do they have any
6 cell phones?
7 A From State Fund?
8 Q Yes.
9 A No.
10 Q As of today's date, do you know what the
11 average caseload is for a rank-and-file attorney at
12 SCIF?
13 A The statewide average, 250.
14 Q Per person?
15 A Perfect comp attorney.
16 Q And do you know what the range is, from
17 high to low, if you know?
18 A We've got -- we've got an office or two
19 that may have slipped under 200, and we have some
20 offices that are in excess of 250, maybe 270,
21 something like that.
22 Q Are you aware of how many of the SCIF
23 attorneys have to pay for student loans each month?
24 A For what?
25 Q Their student loans each month.
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
24
1 A No, I have no idea.
2 Q Do you know how much private defense
3 attorneys make in Workers' Comp right now?
4 A I really don't, only anecdotally.
5 Q Do you know how much the rank-and-file
6 attorneys are making at SCIF?
7 A In general, yes.
8 Q Would you say that's below or above what
9 private defense attorneys make?
10 A You're asking for speculation. I don't
11 really know.
12 Q Okay. Could you tell me how often you
13 meet with your rank-and-file attorneys?
14 A Do you mean on an individual basis or on
15 a total basis?
16 Q Either way; individual, group.
17 A Once a year for the whole group.
18 Q Okay.
19 A And then, otherwise, I will occasionally
20 get out to the various offices.
21 Q Okay.
22 A And it depends on what the office
23 proximity is. If an attorney is in -- is in a
24 Glendale or a Santa Ana, I get down there more often
25 than I would, say, a Redding.
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
25
1 Q Do you try to make it to each office
2 throughout the year?
3 A I've been trying that over the year and a
4 half that I've been Chief Counsel, and I -- I've
5 gotten most of them, but there are certain ones, like
6 a Bakersfield or a Redding and Riverside, that I
7 haven't been to yet. There are a few.
8 MS. MINER: I would like to show the witness
9 Union 2.
10 THE ARBITRATOR: Showing it to the witness,
11 Union 2.
12 THE WITNESS: Uh-huh.
13 BY MS. MINER:
14 Q Are you familiar with this regulation?
15 A Uh-huh. Yes.
16 Q And how are you familiar with it?
17 A Well, I remember it from the days that I
18 was doing Workers' Comp, and also I've been familiar
19 with reform legislation and regulations that have come
20 down over the years.
21 Q Okay. Do you know of any situations
22 where SCIF attorneys are having problems getting ahold
23 of their adjusters when they're at the WCAB?
24 A No.
25 Q Okay. Would you say that it would be
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
26
1 appropriate for a SCIF attorney to have to subpoena
2 their adjuster to the WCAB?
3 A That doesn't sound normal.
4 Q Okay.
5 A You did say to subpoena the adjuster --
6 to subpoena the State Fund adjuster to the WCAB?
7 Q Let me re-ask the question.
8 A Okay.
9 Q When would it be appropriate for a SCIF
10 attorney to bring an adjuster down to the WCAB?
11 A When the attorney wants testimony from
12 the adjuster.
13 Q Okay. Would there be any other time?
14 A Maybe the attorney wants the adjuster to
15 witness what's going on. Maybe the attorney wants the
16 adjuster there for authority. There could be a lot, a
17 myriad of reasons.
18 Q Is it common practice to bring an
19 adjuster down to the Board to have authority when they
20 come down?
21 A It didn't used to be, but there could be
22 more happening now because adjusters like to see what
23 is going on. I really can't speak to what's happening
24 in each district.
25 But that would be -- you know, it's
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
27
1 educational for the adjuster to come down to the WCAB
2 with the attorney and see exactly what's going on, and
3 they can see the parties, see the injured worker and
4 all that type of thing.
5 Q Do you know how often adjusters are going
6 to the Board right now?
7 A I have no idea.
8 Q In the last few years, could you estimate
9 how often adjusters are going to the WCAB?
10 A No.
11 Q Okay. Do you think that it's important
12 for SCIF attorneys to provide their own cell phones to
13 do SCIF work?
14 A I don't really have an opinion on that.
15 I think it's important to get the work done, and I
16 think it's the attorney's responsibility to get the
17 work done. And I think, in general, our attorneys do
18 a fantastic job of getting the work done. I'm very
19 proud of them.
20 THE ARBITRATOR: You used the word "provide"
21 in your question, "provide their own."
22 Do you mean their own personal cell
23 phones?
24 MS. MINER: Yes.
25 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. Thank you.
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
28
1 Let's move on.
2 BY MS. MINER:
3 Q To the best of your knowledge, are SCIF
4 adjusters trained in Union 2?
5 A Oh, you're -- I didn't know what you were
6 talking about in Union 2.
7 Q I'm sorry.
8 A Yeah. Adjusters know about that, sure.
9 Q Okay. So that's part of their regular
10 training?
11 A I believe so.
12 Q To the best of your knowledge, are they
13 informed during their training that they need to be
14 available when an attorney is at the Board on one of
15 their cases?
16 A I cannot tell you that definitively. I
17 would think so. That is an assumption.
18 Q Okay. Do you know if the SCIF Claims
19 Reference Manual requires the claims adjusters to
20 attend Mandatory Settlement Conferences?
21 A Don't know.
22 MS. MINER: I'd like to show the witness
23 Joint Exhibit 3, which is the statewide cell phone
24 grievance.
25 THE ARBITRATOR: Showing it to the witness,
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
29
1 Joint 3.
2 THE WITNESS: Okay.
3 BY MS. MINER:
4 Q Are you familiar with this document?
5 A Yes. Uh-huh.
6 Q And have you seen it before today?
7 A Yes, I have.
8 Q Okay. Did you review this document in
9 preparation for today?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay.
12 A I looked through it.
13 Q All right. Prior to a few months ago
14 when you spoke with Business Services, do you recall
15 if SCIF had ever investigated the purchase of cell
16 phones?
17 A No.
18 You mean cell phones for attorneys?
19 Q For the attorneys, yes.
20 A No.
21 Q Were you aware that Mr. Landsiedel,
22 approximately eight years ago, had did a study
23 regarding cell phones in the L.A. basin?
24 A You know, I can recall hearing something
25 about that, but I basically know nothing about it.
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
30
1 Q Okay. Are you familiar with Labor
2 Code 56?
3 A Oh, yes.
4 Q Okay. Do you believe that discussing
5 details of a medical condition of an injured worker is
6 okay on a public pay phone?
7 A Quite frankly, I've never given it much
8 thought. I would think it's fine.
9 Q Okay. Even when those pay phones are in
10 a waiting room?
11 A Well, for one thing, I don't think you're
12 identifying who the person is. I mean, you'd have to
13 really put together quite a bit to -- to work with
14 that.
15 I mean, I know I did it in days gone by,
16 you know, because it's so specific to that one issue,
17 and you could make an argument that these details, if
18 they're pertinent to the Workers' Comp case, are part
19 of the public record anyhow, if they're at the Board,
20 and they're subject to public scrutiny.
21 Q What happens if the applicant is in the
22 waiting room when the SCIF attorney is trying to make
23 the phone call on their case?
24 A I don't know.
25 Q Okay. Are you familiar with Civil Code
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
31
1 Section 1798, the Information Practices --
2 A The Information Practices Act. I'm
3 vaguely familiar with it.
4 MS. MINER: I would like to submit this as
5 the next in order.
6 THE ARBITRATOR: Do you have a copy for
7 Barrett?
8 MS. MINER: I do.
9 THE ARBITRATOR: For identification only at
10 this time, this will be Union 17. And this is Section
11 1798.80 through 84 of the Code.
12 Showing it to the witness.
13 (The aforementioned document was
14 marked as Union Exhibit 17 by the
15 Arbitrator for identification only.)
16 MS. MINER: Why don't we go off the record.
17 THE ARBITRATOR: Off the record.
18 (Pause in proceedings.)
19 BY MS. MINER:
20 Q You've had a chance to review Union 17?
21 A Yes, which is, it looks to be a part of
22 the Information Practices Act, but it is not the core
23 act.
24 Q Okay.
25 A It looks like an add-on legislation on
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
32
1 business privacy.
2 Q And I asked you to focus on 1798.81.5,
3 and we had some discussion off the record about what
4 does and does not apply to SCIF.
5 So for the record, can you tell us what
6 applies to SCIF, if at all.
7 A I don't believe that 1798.80 does apply
8 to SCIF.
9 Q Okay. And what about 1798.81.5 at the
10 bottom of the first page?
11 A Well, it would be the whole section.
12 From 1798.80, et seq., would be the whole thing. I
13 don't think it was intended for a public agency, for
14 SCIF. I think it was intended for businesses. It
15 looks like a piece of new legislation that I'm vaguely
16 familiar with, but I would have to dig into it.
17 Q If you know, would private defense
18 attorneys be subject to this?
19 A I don't know.
20 Q Do you think that it's important for SCIF
21 attorneys to protect information about injured
22 workers -- private medical information?
23 A Yes, reasonable protection of
24 information, certainly.
25 Q And could you describe what you feel
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
33
1 would be reasonable protection?
2 MR. MC INERNEY: Vague and ambiguous.
3 THE ARBITRATOR: Do you understand the
4 question, sir?
5 THE WITNESS: Oh, I think I can throw an
6 answer out there. Yes, I understand it.
7 I think, for example --
8 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled.
9 THE WITNESS: -- you know, you're taking over
10 a claims file to the WCAB; you don't pass the claims
11 file around to everybody to open it up; you don't
12 leave it open so that people can come in and peruse
13 it, that type of thing. Yeah, it's reasonable, just
14 reasonable.
15 BY MS. MINER:
16 Q And what about talking about medical
17 information with an adjuster on the phone?
18 A Well, I think that's fine because I think
19 that's been done for many years, and that is done.
20 That was -- that was the -- the practice as I knew it.
21 And I'll reiterate, I think it's
22 difficult to really hone in on an individual's medical
23 condition by the chirping back and forth on a phone.
24 I don't think there's anything definitive on that.
25 MS. MINER: I have no further questions at
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
34
1 this time.
2 THE ARBITRATOR: Let's go off the record.
3 (Recess taken.)
4 THE ARBITRATOR: Let's go back on the record.
5 And we'll turn to the State, and we'll
6 ask if there's any cross?
7 MR. MC INERNEY: Yes.
8
9 CROSS EXAMINATION
10
11 BY MR. MC INERNEY:
12 Q Mr. Daneri, I want to direct your
13 attention to Union Exhibit 6.
14 A All right.
15 THE ARBITRATOR: Showing it to the witness,
16 Union 6.
17 Let's go off the record so he can review
18 it.
19 (Pause in proceedings.)
20 BY MR. MC INERNEY:
21 Q You are familiar with Union 56 [sic]?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And can you explain --
24 THE ARBITRATOR: Just for the record, he
25 means Union 6.
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
35
1 MR. MC INERNEY: Labor Code 56. Thank you.
2 Q Can you explain how this organizational
3 format reflected in Labor Code Section 56 operates
4 with respect to SCIF.
5 A Well, it has to be read in connection and
6 context with 57.5. So what 56 has done is, it's taken
7 the division of -- excuse me -- the DIR, the
8 Department of Industrial Relations, and then it's got
9 six subdivisions that relate to the work of labor, the
10 work of -- like Workers' Comp is related to it; Cal
11 OSHA is related to it, and it sets that up.
12 Then in 57.5, it pulls Stated Fund out by
13 saying: "All duties, powers, and jurisdiction
14 relating to the administration of the State
15 Compensation Insurance Fund shall be vested in the
16 Board of Directors of the State Compensation Insurance
17 Fund."
18 So, actually, DIR has no power over State
19 Fund, has no jurisdiction over State Fund. It is the
20 State Fund Board of Directors, who are appointed by
21 the governor, that has the power and the jurisdiction
22 over State Fund.
23 Q Does the director of the Department of
24 Industrial Relations have a position on the SCIF
25 board?
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
36
1 A Yes. It's an ex-officio, nonvoting
2 position. So the director does not vote on the board.
3 Q And with respect to SCIF's status as a
4 hiring authority in State government, is it under the
5 jurisdiction of the Department of Industrial
6 Relations, or is it independent?
7 A Oh, it's totally independent.
8 Q Are you aware of any instances, in the
9 last three or four years, where there have been any
10 sanctions applied to a SCIF attorney by a Workers'
11 Compensation judge as a result of the attorney being
12 unable to timely connect with the adjuster for
13 settlement authority?
14 A No, I'm not aware of that.
15 Q Are you aware of any Orders to Show
16 Cause, or OSCs, that have been issued by any Worker
17 Compensation judges directed against SCIF or a SCIF
18 attorney with respect to the failure to be able to
19 timely communicate with an adjuster for settlement
20 authority?
21 A Not aware of anything.
22 Q When sanctions are issued by a Workers'
23 Compensation attorney [sic], because of the failure of
24 a SCIF attorney to follow rules or regulations, are
25 those instances that are directed to your attention?
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
37
1 A They always have been, and they usually
2 will carry with them a money penalty, and we have to
3 find a way to pay the money penalty. And then we also
4 have to discuss whether ot not we want to appeal the
5 sanction.
6 It rarely happens. It has happened. I
7 can think of one occasion or two when -- when it did,
8 and I'm usually -- I'm aware of it.
9 BY MR. MC INERNEY:
10 Q And to the best of your knowledge, over
11 the last four or five years, you're unaware of any
12 such sanctions or threat of sanctions with respect to
13 the inability of a SCIF attorney to timely communicate
14 with an adjuster for settlement authority?
15 A I'm not aware of anything. That's
16 correct.
17 MR. MC INERNEY: Nothing further.
18 THE ARBITRATOR: Any redirect?
19 MS. MINER: Just a couple.
20
21 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
22
23 BY MS. MINER:
24 Q You just testified that in the last four
25 or five years, no SCIF attorneys, to your knowledge,
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
38
1 have been sanctioned?
2 A Right.
3 Q However, we did talk about some incidents
4 when that did happen.
5 Can you describe those situations.
6 A There was a State contract attorney,
7 about a year ago -- and I have his name, if you want
8 it, but I don't know if you want me to reveal his
9 name.
10 Q No.
11 A But he got into some situation where
12 there was a disturbance between this gentleman and
13 another attorney, and the Workers' Comp judge, I
14 think, hit him with a thousand-dollar fine. And that
15 has ramification because I believe that has to be
16 reported to the State Bar. And that's one.
17 We had one years ago when the -- Cerritos
18 had a district office, and I remember the gentleman's
19 name, and I remember it being a sanction, and I can't
20 remember exactly what it was for but -- I just can't
21 remember exactly what it was for.
22 Fortunately, we don't have much of this.
23 Our attorneys do an outstanding job getting the job
24 done and satisfying the Boards' requirements; and so I
25 see very little of this, and we see very little of
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
39
1 this.
2 Q For the State contract attorney that you
3 said was about a year ago --
4 A It was in Commerce.
5 Q In Commerce?
6 A Uh-huh.
7 Q And was that a fine for not having
8 settlement authority or for another issue?
9 A Well, I think it was a disturbance
10 between the two attorneys, the applicant's attorney
11 and the State contract attorney. It had nothing to do
12 with settlement authority.
13 I think our attorney in State contracts
14 was making a very aggressive presentation and maybe
15 got overly aggressive or something, and the judge
16 reacted or overreacted, what have you, and I cannot
17 tell you how the resolution of that came down because
18 I don't have any authority over State contracts.
19 Q You said that you don't have authority
20 over the State contract attorneys?
21 A No.
22 Q Who does?
23 A Frank Floyd, who is the program manager
24 for the State contract program.
25 Q Do you believe that it's important for
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
40
1 SCIF attorneys to be efficient?
2 A I believe SCIF attorneys are efficient.
3 Q Do you think that they can be more
4 efficient?
5 A I think they're doing a fine job.
6 Q Now, you just stated that Mr. Floyd
7 has -- supervises the attorneys in State contracts.
8 So do you not -- do you supervise, then, the attorneys
9 in the civil litigation units?
10 A Well, I'm the manager, yes, chief
11 counsel, and the civil lit attorneys are in the
12 Insured Legal Department, yes.
13 Q And are the subrogation attorneys in
14 there also?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Are the longshoremen attorneys --
17 A Yes.
18 Q -- under your supervision also?
19 A We only have three.
20 Q Do you have any SCIF attorneys that do
21 both policy and State contracts?
22 A State cases, yes, we do. Yes.
23 Q Okay. So if a situation arose on a
24 policy issue, you would be their chain of command;
25 correct?
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
41
1 A Right.
2 Q And if it was a State case, the chain of
3 command would go up through Mr. Floyd; correct?
4 A It depends on what was happening on the
5 case. If it was an issue of an attorney's performance
6 and not specifically related to issues on the case,
7 they would probably still come under the Insured Legal
8 Department via the -- for example, Oxnard is an office
9 that has both. So you have an attorney-in-charge, and
10 you have an assistant chief counsel, and you have a
11 chief counsel.
12 So it would depend on what the issue was.
13 If it was an issue of how to deal with a particular
14 State agency, that would likely come within
15 Mr. Floyd's purview.
16 Q Do you and Mr. Floyd ever speak about the
17 attorneys and the jobs that they perform at the WCAB,
18 just in general?
19 A Sure. In general, yes.
20 Q And what do those conversations usually
21 entail?
22 A Oh, it might be a case that is coming up
23 from State contracts to our Appellate Unit in Home
24 Office, and Frank will give me some information on,
25 you know, whether he thinks we should take that on
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
42
1 appeal or something like that.
2 Q Okay. Have you guys ever discussed cell
3 phones for the attorneys?
4 A It may have come up over the years.
5 MS. MINER: All right. I have no further
6 questions.
7 THE ARBITRATOR: Anything further for this
8 witness?
9 MR. MC INERNEY: Nothing further.
10 THE ARBITRATOR: Thank you very much for your
11 testimony, sir.
12 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
13 THE ARBITRATOR: You're excused.
14 Let's go off the record.
15 (Discussion held off record.)
16
17 A. RENEE KOREN,
18 HAVING FIRST BEEN DULY SWORN, WAS
19 EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
20
21 THE ARBITRATOR: Let's go back on the record
22 and show the next witness for the Union has been
23 called and sworn.
24 And for the record, would you please give
25 us your full name, spelling your last name.
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
43
1 THE WITNESS: A. Renee Koren, K-o-r-e-n.
2 THE ARBITRATOR: And your position, if any,
3 with SCIF?
4 THE WITNESS: Vice-president and member of
5 the Executive Committee.
6 THE ARBITRATOR: Your witness.
7
8 DIRECT EXAMINATION
9
10 BY MS. MINER:
11 Q Ms. Koren, how long have you been in the
12 vice-president position?
13 A Four years -- a little over four years.
14 Q Is that a CEA position or an appointment?
15 THE ARBITRATOR: Excuse me. CEA?
16 MS. MINER: Career executive assignment.
17 THE ARBITRATOR: Thank you.
18 THE WITNESS: It's a CEA position.
19 BY MS. MINER:
20 Q Could you describe your duties in that
21 position, please.
22 A My areas of responsibility are Human
23 Resources, internal and external communications,
24 Information Technology, group insurance programs,
25 special projects, Project Services Office, the Eureka
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
44
1 district office and the Stockton district office.
2 Q And what other classifications have you
3 held with State Fund, if any?
4 A You know, I've worked for State Fund for
5 33 years, and I started as a Clerk I.
6 Do you want me to go from Clerk I all the
7 way through?
8 THE ARBITRATOR: How about the last five?
9 BY MS. MINER:
10 Q The last five, that will work.
11 THE ARBITRATOR: Going backwards.
12 THE WITNESS: Okay. Going backwards, I
13 was -- I was a CEA V; I was a CEA IV; I was a Program
14 Manager -- what? -- I forget -- I think --
15 MS. ROWAN: III or IV.
16 THE WITNESS: -- Program Manager IV.
17 THE ARBITRATOR: Well, she's the witness. If
18 you can recall, you can recall.
19 THE WITNESS: We changed our classifications.
20 We went from Manager I, II, III, IV to Program Manager
21 I-A, I-B, II-A, II-B. I was the equivalent of a II-B
22 and the equivalent of a II-A, and then I was
23 Manager I.
24 BY MS. MINER:
25 Q Okay. Have you ever been a claims
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
45
1 adjuster?
2 A No.
3 Q So prior to becoming a manager, what kind
4 of work did you do in SCIF, other than starting off as
5 a clerk when you first started?
6 A My major experience was -- well,
7 actually, I've been in our Fiscal Services Department,
8 our Personnel Services, our Management Analyst
9 Department, our Human Resources Department, but the
10 bulk of my experience has been in Marketing.
11 Q And is that for SCIF to get new clients?
12 A It's -- our Marketing Department handled
13 systems marketing, systems and development, our broker
14 program, competitive information, corporate
15 advertising which consists of collateral support
16 material, website development.
17 Q And have you worked for any other
18 departments for the State?
19 A No.
20 Q Are you an attorney?
21 A No.
22 Q Have you ever had to make an appearance
23 at a Workers' Comp Board as a SCIF employee?
24 A No.
25 Q Do you know if the Legal Division and the
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
46
1 Executive Committee -- if there's any sort of an
2 agreement regarding cell phones or a policy about cell
3 phones or providing cell phones to the attorneys?
4 A Well, the State Fund cell phone policy is
5 that we provide cell phones for employees who hotel;
6 that means they do not have an office and a desk and a
7 chair and a computer in the office. They -- they are
8 field positions completely. They work and they go
9 into hotelling locations where they can plug their
10 computer in.
11 Q So that would not apply to the attorneys,
12 then?
13 A Right.
14 Q Do you know what classifications those
15 employees are?
16 A They are generally Workers' Compensation
17 insurance representatives or Workers' Compensation
18 payroll auditors. I may be missing a classification
19 in there. I apologize.
20 Q In your capacity of vice-president, do
21 you receive -- are you one of the response levels for
22 various grievances?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And what level response are you?
25 A It depends on the grievance. I think on
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
47
1 this one, I'm second --
2 Q For Unit 2.
3 A I think I'm second level. I think.
4 Q Okay.
5 A To the best of my knowledge.
6 MS. MINER: I'd like to show the witness
7 Joint Exhibit 2.
8 THE ARBITRATOR: Showing it to the witness.
9 THE WITNESS: I was third-level appeal on
10 this one. Okay.
11 BY MS. MINER:
12 Q Are you familiar with this grievance?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. And when have you seen this
15 grievance before, if at all?
16 A I saw it when I signed it.
17 Q Have you reviewed this grievance prior to
18 today's testimony?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. Describe, to the best of your
21 recollection, the situation in the Fresno office
22 that's the subject of the grievance.
23 THE ARBITRATOR: I'm sorry. "The situation"
24 as it pertains to this grievance?
25 MS. MINER: Yes.
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
48
1 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay.
2 THE WITNESS: I -- I don't know that I can
3 testify to that. I don't know what the situation was
4 in the Fresno office. Someone in Fresno could tell
5 you that. I can tell you what the -- all I know is
6 what was provided in the grievance.
7 THE ARBITRATOR: Let me do this: From what I
8 understand so far, are you aware that at some point in
9 time, the phone company came in and took out the pay
10 phones?
11 THE WITNESS: I became aware of that this
12 past week.
13 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. Why don't you pick it
14 up from there.
15 BY MS. MINER:
16 Q Specifically as to the Fresno office?
17 A Well, in -- it was in the Fresno
18 grievance, and I learned this past week that they've
19 been taking pay phones out of the buildings.
20 Q Okay. Do you know, is it just the Fresno
21 building or different buildings or what buildings?
22 A All I know is, it was additional
23 buildings.
24 Q Okay.
25 A That's all -- that's all the information
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
49
1 that I had.
2 Q Okay. Do you believe that SCIF should
3 reimburse its employees for business expenses?
4 A State Fund does reimburse employees for
5 business expenses.
6 Q Okay. Do you have a cell phone that SCIF
7 pays for?
8 A Yes.
9 MS. MINER: And I'd like to show the witness
10 Union 1.
11 THE ARBITRATOR: Showing it to the witness,
12 the reimbursement procedure.
13 THE WITNESS: I'm familiar with this.
14 BY MS. MINER:
15 Q Okay. And there's several pages to the
16 document.
17 A Yes. I certainly cannot testify as to
18 calculations under this procedure.
19 Q Okay. But you do know that this is the
20 SCIF reimbursement policy; correct?
21 A Yes.
22 Q All right. Have you ever had to submit
23 for reimbursement under this procedure?
24 A No.
25 Q Are you aware if any attorneys are having
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
50
1 problems submitting -- or receiving reimbursement per
2 this procedure?
3 A I have no knowledge of that.
4 Q Okay. Do you have any knowledge if SCIF
5 has investigated purchasing cell phones, in your
6 capacity as the vice-president?
7 A Only through conversation with
8 Mr. Daneri, that he testified to this morning.
9 Q Are you vice-president over Business
10 Services?
11 A No.
12 Q Okay. Who is?
13 A Jim Tudor.
14 Q All right.
15 A He's actually our acting president.
16 Q In your conversations with Mr. Daneri,
17 had you spoken about possibly purchasing cell phones,
18 to your recollection?
19 A Excuse me?
20 Q In your conversations with Mr. Daneri
21 about possibly purchasing -- had you guys actually
22 discussed possibly purchasing cell phones for --
23 A No.
24 Q -- the attorneys?
25 Okay. Do you know if any of the SCIF
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
51
1 attorneys have had to purchase a cell phone for SCIF
2 business?
3 A I have no knowledge of that.
4 Q Okay. Do you have any other electronic
5 equipment that State Fund provides?
6 A Yes. I have a lap-top and a computer.
7 Q Anything else?
8 A And a Blackberry which -- I have a
9 Blackberry which I use as a cell phone. It's one
10 device.
11 Q Do you know what the practice is for SCIF
12 attorneys to get ahold of their clients when they're
13 at a Workers' Comp Board?
14 A No, I don't.
15 Q Okay. Do you know how private attorneys
16 get ahold of their clients --
17 A No, I don't.
18 Q -- at the Board?
19 Are you aware if SCIF attorneys have to
20 go to another building to use a pay phone to call a
21 client?
22 A I have no personal knowledge of what they
23 have to do at the Board.
24 Q Okay. And that's all the boards
25 throughout the State; correct?
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
52
1 A Yeah, I have no knowledge of how any
2 board works. I've never been at a board, and I've
3 never observed any activities at a board.
4 Q Do you have any independent knowledge of
5 how many cases a SCIF attorney has, on average?
6 A None other than the average that
7 Mr. Daneri testified to.
8 Q Okay. Do you know what the caseload
9 average was for a SCIF attorney when you started as
10 vice-president -- what that was?
11 A I have no idea.
12 Q Okay. Do you know what SCIF attorneys do
13 on a day-to-day basis?
14 A I -- I have no personal knowledge of
15 their day-to-day job. I assume they try cases.
16 Q Okay.
17 A But I've never had responsibility for
18 Legal. So ...
19 Q But you are the third-level response;
20 correct?
21 A Yes.
22 Q For the Unit 2 --
23 A Yes.
24 Q -- grievance procedure?
25 Okay. Now, you testified that you have
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
53
1 not heard of any attorneys having any problems seeking
2 reimbursement under the SCIF procedure.
3 So do you know if -- how much money the
4 attorneys make at SCIF?
5 A I -- I would -- you know, I really don't
6 know their salary off the top of my head. It's
7 available publically on the pay scales.
8 THE ARBITRATOR: So the answer is no?
9 THE WITNESS: No. And I'd have to refer to
10 the pay scales to refresh my memory. They make a lot
11 more than our rank-and-file employees, in general,
12 though.
13 BY MS. MINER:
14 Q Have you ever had an opportunity to meet
15 with rank-and-file attorneys at SCIF?
16 A I've done presentations to the
17 all-attorney conference on occasion concerning
18 marketing manager matters when I was in Marketing. I
19 can't remember any other discussions I've had with
20 rank-and-file attorneys outside of civil litigation
21 cases.
22 Q Do you have an opinion as to if a SCIF
23 attorney should have a cell phone for use when they're
24 away from the office?
25 A My opinion really is irrelevant. The
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
54
1 policy at State Fund, which is put into place for
2 economic reasons, is that cell phones are only
3 provided for hotelling employees or employees that
4 need to be contacted on a 24-hour basis.
5 THE ARBITRATOR: Excuse me. Respectfully,
6 I'll decide what's relevant and what's irrelevant.
7 The question was: Do you have an opinion
8 on that? And if your answer is no, that's your
9 answer.
10 THE WITNESS: My opinion is, no, it's too
11 expensive.
12 BY MS. MINER:
13 Q Who is responsible for the policy that
14 you've described for other SCIF employees who have
15 cell phones? Who oversees that area?
16 A The -- the overall policy responsibility
17 is vested with the Executive Committee. The signature
18 on the policy or the actual person responsible for
19 this policy would be Jim Tudor at this time; but it
20 would be an Executive Committee decision.
21 MS. MINER: I'd like to show the witness
22 Union 2.
23 THE ARBITRATOR: Showing it to the witness,
24 the Labor Code.
25 MR. MC INERNEY: This is the reg.
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
55
1 THE ARBITRATOR: Excuse me. The reg. I'm
2 sorry.
3 BY MS. MINER:
4 Q Have you had any familiarity with this
5 regulation --
6 A No.
7 Q -- prior to today?
8 Okay. So you don't have any independent
9 knowledge that SCIF attorneys have to have settlement
10 authority available when they're at the WCAB; correct?
11 A Well, I understand that SCIF attorneys
12 need settlement authority. I didn't have personal
13 knowledge of this particular provision in the code.
14 Q Okay. Do you know how it is that they
15 get ahold of their adjusters?
16 A I have no personal knowledge of that.
17 Q Okay. Are you aware of any problems that
18 SCIF attorneys might have in getting ahold of their
19 adjusters?
20 A No.
21 Q So you're not aware of any steps that
22 SCIF management has undertaken to alleviate a
23 situation where attorneys are having problems getting
24 ahold of the adjusters?
25 A No.
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
56
1 Q Okay. Do you have any opinion about SCIF
2 attorneys requiring their adjusters to come down to
3 the WCAB?
4 A I don't know that SCIF attorneys require
5 adjusters to go to the WCAB.
6 Q Or requesting adjusters to come down to
7 the WCAB on a case?
8 A What are you asking me? Do I have an
9 opinion about that?
10 Q Yes.
11 A My personal opinion would be that that
12 would be all to the good. It would give additional
13 training to the adjuster to be there and see an actual
14 hearing in progress.
15 Q Do you have any familiarity with the jobs
16 of claims adjusters?
17 A Personally -- other than the fact they
18 adjust the claims, they provide the benefits, you
19 know, they make liability determinations. Other than
20 that, I don't have no personal -- I've never adjusted
21 a claim. I have no personal knowledge of their actual
22 job.
23 Q As vice-president of Human Resources, are
24 you involved in any sort of training program for the
25 adjusters?
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1 A No.
2 Q Do you know who is?
3 A That would be our Claims Rehabilitation
4 Department, and that's their responsibility.
5 Q Okay. Do you have any knowledge of any
6 SCIF attorneys being threatened with sanctions for not
7 being able to get ahold of their adjusters?
8 A No.
9 Q Do you believe that it's important for
10 SCIF attorneys to be efficient in their job?
11 A I believe our attorneys are very
12 efficient in their jobs.
13 Q Okay. Do you think that there's anything
14 that SCIF could do to make them more efficient?
15 A No, I don't.
16 Q Does SCIF have a policy about protecting
17 the privacy of the injured workers who have a claim
18 that's filed?
19 A I'm not familiar -- personally familiar
20 with the privacy provisions related to adjusting the
21 claims and the information in a claims file.
22 MS. MINER: I'd like to show the witness
23 Joint Exhibit 3.
24 THE ARBITRATOR: Showing it to the witness,
25 Joint 3.
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1 THE WITNESS: Okay.
2 BY MS. MINER:
3 Q Are you familiar with Joint Exhibit 3?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay. And how did you become aware of
6 it?
7 A When I signed the review.
8 Q Okay.
9 THE ARBITRATOR: Just so I know, this is the
10 third level?
11 THE WITNESS: Yes.
12 THE ARBITRATOR: Please continue.
13 BY MS. MINER:
14 Q All right. And I'd like to look at your
15 response of March 15th, 2005. And I'm looking at the
16 third paragraph.
17 THE ARBITRATOR: I'm sorry. Can we share it?
18 THE WITNESS: I have two different eye
19 contacts; so I need to move a little closer to you.
20 So ...
21 THE ARBITRATOR: That's okay.
22 BY MS. MINER:
23 Q Did you have any familiarity with Labor
24 Code Section 56 prior to receiving this grievance?
25 A Yes.
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1 Q And what was your recollection of what
2 you knew about Labor Code 56?
3 A In terms of civil litigation, this -- the
4 type of entity that State Fund is comes up very often.
5 Q Okay. And can you describe that.
6 A Can I describe what?
7 Q What you meant by how it comes up in
8 civil litigation.
9 A What type of entity that we are.
10 Q Okay.
11 A Because we are a public enterprise fund,
12 which is unique in State government. It -- when we're
13 under civil litigation, it's to separate how we are
14 different from the business; and in other dealings
15 with other State agencies, it's to separate how we are
16 different from other State agencies.
17 Q But according to Labor Code Section 56,
18 you're part of the Department of Industrial Relations;
19 correct?
20 A Well, we're -- that's where we are on the
21 organizational chart at the State of California. We
22 have no reporting relationship to the Department of
23 Industrial Relations. We report directly to our Board
24 of Directors through our president.
25 Q Could you tell me what the current SCIF
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1 operating budget is for this fiscal year.
2 A I don't have that number off the top of
3 my head. I'm sorry.
4 Q Okay. Do you have a good faith estimate
5 of how much that is?
6 A I really -- I'm sorry. I really do not
7 know.
8 Q Okay. Are you one of the vice-presidents
9 that is responsible for the fiscal budget?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay. Do you have a good faith estimate
12 of how much SCIF spends on the Legal Division --
13 A No, I don't.
14 Q -- in a particular year?
15 If you know, in the last four to five
16 years, has the Legal Division's budget increased?
17 A Yes, it has.
18 Q Okay. Do you know by how much?
19 A I don't know by how much.
20 Q Okay. And what has that increase gone to
21 specifically in Legal, if you know?
22 A I don't know all specific areas. I do
23 know it's gone to salaries because we have increased
24 staffing in the Legal Division.
25 Q Do you know how much has gone for
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1 lap-tops?
2 A No, I don't.
3 Q Does SCIF purchase Blackberrys at all for
4 any of its attorneys?
5 A Excuse me?
6 Q Does SCIF purchase Blackberrys for any of
7 its attorneys?
8 A Our chief counsel.
9 Q But no one else?
10 A Not to my knowledge.
11 THE ARBITRATOR: Just so I know -- and it may
12 be irrelevant, but is there a line of demarcation at
13 SCIF over which you get a lap-top, Blackberry, cell
14 phone and under which you do not, or it's just job by
15 job?
16 THE WITNESS: Well, in general -- in general,
17 if it's a field job, you get a lap-top. If it's a
18 field job that does not have a desk, then you get a
19 cell phone.
20 Managers -- program managers and the
21 Executive Committee members get Blackberrys because we
22 need 24-hour notice.
23 Then there are other employees, say, in
24 our Home Office, IT Department, our Disaster Recovery
25 Team where we need 24-hour contact, where they do get
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1 cell phones.
2 THE ARBITRATOR: Thank you.
3 Please pick it up.
4 BY MS. MINER:
5 Q Okay. To the best of your knowledge, do
6 you know if SCIF's fiscal budget has increased over
7 the last four years since you've become
8 vice-president, in general?
9 A In general, yes, it has.
10 Q And could you explain the reason for
11 that.
12 A Increased staffing.
13 Q Has there been an increase in
14 policyholders with SCIF?
15 A There -- there was up until probably the
16 last 24 months.
17 Q Do you know if SCIF contracts with any
18 outside law firms?
19 A Yes, we do.
20 Q Do you know if those law firms provide
21 cell phones to their attorneys?
22 A I have no idea.
23 Q Are you familiar with a study that was
24 done approximately eight years ago in the L.A. area
25 about purchasing cell phone for attorneys?
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1 A No.
2 MS. MINER: I have no further questions at
3 this time.
4 THE ARBITRATOR: Thank you.
5 Let's go off the record.
6 (Discussion held off record.)
7 THE ARBITRATOR: We'll have cross.
8
9 CROSS EXAMINATION
10
11 BY MR. MC INERNEY:
12 Q Ms. Koren, you had mentioned that there
13 is no reporting relationship between SCIF and the
14 Department of Industrial Relations.
15 What do you mean by a "reporting
16 relationship"?
17 A There's no one at the Department of
18 Industrial Relations that authorizes anything for
19 State Fund. We do have the director of the Department
20 of Industrial Relations, John Ray, on our Board of
21 Directors, but he is a nonvoting member.
22 MR. MC INERNEY: Can I take a peek at Joint
23 Exhibit 1, which I think is the contract?
24 THE ARBITRATOR: Sure.
25 BY MR. MC INERNEY:
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1 Q I want to direct your attention to
2 page 118 of Joint Exhibit 1.
3 And I believe on 118, there are separate
4 signature lines on the Unit 2 contract for the
5 Department of Industrial Relations and for SCIF?
6 A Yes, there are.
7 Q With respect to the signature line for
8 SCIF, do you recognize that signature?
9 A Yes. It's George Cronin.
10 Q And do you recognize the signature on the
11 line for the Department of Industrial Relations?
12 A I don't know who that person is.
13 Q Who selects Mr. Cronin to work at the
14 master table for Unit 2 -- or who did select him?
15 A From State Fund?
16 Q Is State Fund the group that selects him?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And as far as you know, is the selection
19 of who is going to sit at the Unit 2 table on behalf
20 of SCIF something which has to be reviewed or
21 authorized by the Department of Industrial Relations?
22 A No.
23 Q During the time Mr. Cronin sat at the
24 Unit 2 table, was there any interaction with you
25 concerning proposals that were being passed at the
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1 table?
2 A No. I -- at this time -- what was the
3 date on there?
4 Q I believe that contract is 2001.
5 MS. MINER: For the record, I'd like to
6 object to this line of questioning because Barrett
7 hasn't established if this witness has knowledge of
8 the bargaining process.
9 THE ARBITRATOR: Excuse me. Are you saying
10 there's no foundation?
11 MS. MINER: No foundation.
12 THE ARBITRATOR: While I'm in general
13 agreement, for these questions, overruled. He's just
14 asking her what would be, I believe, common knowledge.
15 In fact, the document speaks for itself.
16 So please continue.
17 MR. MC INERNEY: Okay. With respect to that
18 period of time, what is it? We were trying to
19 establish the year of the contract.
20 Is it 2001?
21 THE ARBITRATOR: July '01 to July '03.
22 BY MR. MC INERNEY:
23 Q On that particular contract, do you
24 recall having any interaction with Mr. Cronin
25 concerning issues that were coming up at the
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1 bargaining table?
2 A No.
3 Q Are you aware of who Mr. Cronin reported
4 to during his tenure at the master table on behalf of
5 SCIF?
6 A He would have reported to the Labor
7 Relations Officer at the time. I'm not sure who that
8 was. I do know the Personnel Services Manager at the
9 time was Patricia Smith. I would guess that the Labor
10 Relations Officer was Irene Sada-Casap, but I'm not
11 absolutely certain.
12 MR. MC INERNEY: I don't have anything
13 further.
14 THE ARBITRATOR: Any redirect?
15
16 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
17
18 BY MS. MINER:
19 Q Are you familiar at all with the
20 negotiating process that DPA utilizes?
21 A At the bargaining table?
22 Q Yes.
23 A Yes.
24 Q And how do you have knowledge of that?
25 A From discussions with my HR personnel who
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1 are involved in the negotiations.
2 MS. MINER: I have no further questions.
3 THE ARBITRATOR: Anything further?
4 MR. MC INERNEY: Nothing further.
5 THE ARBITRATOR: Thank you for your
6 testimony. You're excused.
7 Rest, subject to possible rebuttal?
8 MS. MINER: Can we go off the record for a
9 minute?
10 THE ARBITRATOR: Off the record.
11 (Discussion held off record.)
12 THE ARBITRATOR: Within the next few days or
13 so, I will write the parties, and I will do my best to
14 do the following: I will give you a date pretty far
15 out in the future with the understanding that this
16 case is on what I call my short-call list, and I
17 believe you're both familiar with this. As soon as I
18 get cancellations, I'll pick up the phone and call the
19 parties and say, "Are you available two weeks from
20 Monday?" or --
21 Let's go off the record one second.
22 (Discussion held off record.)
23 THE ARBITRATOR: I'm sorry to keep repeating
24 this, but we will find a date that's further out than
25 everybody likes, and then I will do my best to move it
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1 up to an earlier date.
2 I would also note for the record that I
3 have and I will maintain until the next hearing date
4 the packet of new exhibits that Barrett has
5 transmitted to Monica and myself. I won't mark them
6 yet unless this is the same --
7 MR. MC INERNEY: They're the same as Union
8 16, only on Union 16, we had scratched off all of the
9 handwriting, and the handwriting will be coming in
10 through Mr. Cronin.
11 THE ARBITRATOR: Off the record.
12 (Discussion held off record.)
13
14 ROBERT DANERI,
15 HAVING PREVIOUSLY BEEN DULY SWORN, WAS
16 EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
17
18 THE ARBITRATOR: Now, we'll turn to the
19 State's case, and the first witness has been recalled.
20 And I would remind you, sir, you're still
21 under oath.
22 THE WITNESS: Yes.
23 MR. MC INERNEY: Will this be State A?
24 THE ARBITRATOR: No, 1. State Exhibit 1.
25 MR. MC INERNEY: Okay.
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1
2 DIRECT EXAMINATION
3
4 BY MR. MC INERNEY:
5 Q Mr. Daneri, I'm showing you a copy, or
6 you're being shown a copy of State Exhibit 1, and I
7 want to direct your attention to page 4.
8 THE ARBITRATOR: Let's go off the record one
9 second.
10 (Discussion held off record.)
11 THE ARBITRATOR: For identification only at
12 this time, State Exhibit 1 is a settlement agreement
13 dated November 8, 2001 -- or let's just say
14 October-November 2001. It's a three-page -- four-page
15 document.
16 (The aforementioned document was
17 marked as State Exhibit 1 by the
18 Arbitrator for identification only.)
19 THE ARBITRATOR: Please continue.
20 BY MR. MC INERNEY:
21 Q Directing your attention to page 4, is
22 that your signature on the line above the typed
23 Robert W. Daneri?
24 A Yes, it is.
25 Q And are you familiar with this particular
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1 settlement agreement?
2 A Yes, I am.
3 Q And what was the issue that was being
4 resolved, if you recall?
5 A The issue was SCIF's use of outside
6 counsel -- contracting out for outside counsel on
7 certain cases.
8 Q And this was an agreement between SCIF
9 and the CASE union?
10 A Yes.
11 Q I notice on page 4, there's a signature
12 line for George Cronin.
13 Is he someone with SCIF?
14 A Yes.
15 Q And yourself and Mr. Savage.
16 He was also employed by SCIF?
17 A Yes, indeed.
18 Q To the best of your knowledge, was there
19 ever any signature or approval from the Department of
20 Industrial Relations with respect to SCIF entering
21 into this settlement agreement with CASE?
22 A No. The Department of Industrial
23 Relations had nothing to do with this.
24 Q And that is because of the explanation
25 that you had previously given with respect to Labor
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71
1 Code Section 56 and 57.5?
2 A That is correct.
3 MR. MC INERNEY: I don't have anything
4 further.
5 And I'd move to admit State Exhibit 1.
6 THE ARBITRATOR: I'll reserve until the end
7 of what I believe is a short cross.
8 We'll have cross, if any.
9 MS. MINER: I don't have any questions.
10 THE ARBITRATOR: Any objection to State 1?
11 MS. MINER: No.
12 THE ARBITRATOR: It's received.
13 (The aforementioned document which was
14 previously marked State Exhibit 1
15 was received into evidence by the
16 Arbitrator.)
17 THE ARBITRATOR: Thank you for your
18 testimony, sir.
19 We're going to -- pursuant to our prior
20 understandings, we're going to break the hearing at
21 this time.
22 MS. MINER: Mr. Floyd is not available today;
23 correct?
24 THE ARBITRATOR: Let's go off the record.
25 (Discussion held off record.)
R O U G H D R A F T O N L Y
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1 THE ARBITRATOR: So as I just said, we're
2 going to break the hearing at this time, and we will
3 be back under the procedure that I advised you a
4 little earlier where we'll set a date that's, frankly,
5 going to be out a little bit into '06, and then I'll
6 absolutely do my best to finish up this case at an
7 earlier date when I get a cancellation. Okay?
8 MS. MINER: Okay.
9 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay?
10 MR. MC INERNEY: Okay.
11 THE ARBITRATOR: Thank you all very much.
12 Nice to meet you. Good luck to you in your career.
13 MS. ECONOMOU: Thank you.
14 THE ARBITRATOR: And thank you, Angela.
15 And we are off the record.
16 (At the hour of 11:53 a.m., the
17 proceedings were adjourned.)
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